SHAILENDRA SHARMA MAKING THIS STATEMENT FOR THE FIRST TIME
Q: You mentioned such types of immortal beings, who don’t even need spirit to be immortal?
Guruji: Ok, this is something extraordinary: you see, everybody, whoever is there is – we need jiva or spirit for life; for animation for life. That means your whole existence continues to depend on a spirit, which will bring life for an allocated time span and will take it away. What is emancipation, or nirvana, or liberation? When you have reached the source of life and you’re taking in life directly and you don’t need any carrier to bring you life. That is the state of liberation, mukta: you don’t need any spirit or atma to remain alive. This is the highest form of achievement. Second level achievement is: somehow you create some interest in your spirit, which is already billions of years old, and somehow you establish communication: and it agrees to remain inside your physical body, which we described in Gorakhbodh. But that one, who’s directly taking life from the source, doesn’t need any carrier to bring it to you- so you can live for some time. I think all those great people – 9 Naths and Avadhut- they have gone beyond that.
Q: And Matsyendranath also?
Guruji: I think so, yes
Q: What happens with the spirit after yogi connects with the source of life?
Guruji: It is their job: to bring life and take it away. But once you’re connected – you are respected and you’re independent, finally.
Q: But the spirit remains inside?
Guruji: No, no need at all! Directly tacking in.
Q: But the spirit goes somewhere after that?
Guruji: in their own home, wherever they live. It’s something absolutely new; and Shailendra Sharma making this statement for the first time. It is not recorded in human history. But I don’t think many people will even understand that. We will need more discussion on that.
As a yogi I’m saying this: everybody believes that Ishwar – or the god, whatever you call – lives inside your heart. So when you are able to directly connect with the Ishwar or the god inside your heart- you’re directly connecting with the source of life; and then after that, Ishwar will take care: you will not need any spirit to give you life or animation or anything. Remember that, it is inside your heart! That’s why Hridaya granthi bhed considered the most important sadhana in Kriya yoga.
Q: Can we say that after Hridaya granthi we will not need a spirit?
Guruji: No; after you reach Ishwar and you somehow make him take some interest in you and he is willing to share the source of life with you. Looking at him is one thing, then being in intimate contact with him is one thing, then establishing a form of communication with him is another thing: it will continue. The association will continue.
Prana is one of the names of the Shiva: so when you will realise the prana- you will continue to remain alive without the support of any spirit or something.
Q: When we reach the level of kevala kumbhaka – prana must be constantly inside the body?
Guruji: Always. That is the source of life.
Q: When you don’t need spirit anymore – the prana will be still inside?
Guruji: It agrees to remain inside: which is maybe the biggest achievement. Then the association with Shiva will begin.
Q: Then will the quality of prana change?
Guruji: No. It is prana, which is continuously going out exhaling: because of apana, Shakti, it keeps pulling it back. If you will somehow make prana agree – that yes, I will remain inside you – your own free.
Q: But when prana enters the body: does it change its qualities?
Guruji: It is everywhere: only when the spirit comes- a different reaction starts and the body is animated and the breathing starts. Prana is everywhere, air is everywhere.
Here is another point you must remember: in Sanskrit it is said- na tasya prana utkramanti; His pranas never leave the body: they merge with the source inside the heart with Ishwar. So it is not leaving the body of the accomplished yogi – they merge inside. A spirit will go its own way. But prana will merge along with his consciousness into the Ishwar, which is living inside your heart.
Q: Then will prana have the same qualities as the outside prana?
Guruji: It will be one with the prana – but while retaining individuality as well.
After you have gone through many-many samadhis and when Shiva himself and Guru Dattatreya and Babaji Maharaj will give you grace – then maybe.
Q: So it’s not the decision of the spirit that you can connect with the source?
Guruji: It’s Ishwar inside your heart that will decide! We keep on talking about spirit and we keep ignoring Ishwar, which is already inside your heart. We discussed so much: now it is time to pay some attention to the Ishwar who lives in our heart. That is the source, main source.
Q: How does it come to our heart? With the spirit or even before?
Guruji: You call it Ishwar or you call it prana. Isha: the most prosperous woman; and I said – Earth is the most prosperous lady, who is her husband. Body is considered as earthly: so the husband lives in the heart (smiling), Ishwar.
Q: So: first developing the consciousness and then – rising of Kundalini, finding the true meaning of the earth element?
Q: Then – recognize the consciousness of the Earth?
Guruji: First you recognize the consciousness of Earth, then the power will come.
Q: Then to merge with the consciousness of the Earth and decide?
Guruji: Then you will realise the var of Earth: “var” means the husband or the companion of Earth. And the power of Earth will introduce you to him.
Q: On that stage you took the decision to attain nirvana or to stay with the Earth?
Guruji: They say – merge with the god, which is inside your heart – so you don’t have to go anywhere. Going inside your heart is a more difficult journey than to go anywhere else.
Q: Nirvana is a different state?
Guruji: Nirvana is when you decide to merge in the Void by leaving behind the immortal body. If there is no immortality- then the question on nirvana is not there.
Q: It’s like different paths: nirvana and merging with the Earth?
Guruji: Not exactly; two sides of a coin. Thus the description may differ, but it is more or less similar.
Q: In both cases we have no spirit?
Guruji: You’ve gone beyond the need of a spirit. Immortal body will come: otherwise you will have no choice.
Q: So on what it depends?
Guruji: It depends on your decision. You will be in a deciding situation.
Q: That is something!
Guruji: Yes, it is big.
Q: Guruji, from the beginning who forces the human to practice yoga?
Guruji: Nobody. It is our curious nature.
Q: Every spirit lives for billions of years…
Guruji: Yes, and they have no interest in our life: they give us life – how we use our life is up to us. And it is very good – we have a very curious nature and keep searching for different things; and then the very wise thinkers – they come to this: why are we here? Who are we?
Q: Does it depend on some traces of consciousness which spirit carries from previous life?
Guruji: No, nothing. It’s your own consciousness.
Q: But spirit brings some samskaras?
Guruji: Nothing: just gives life.
Q: Where do the habits and likes and dislikes from the past life come from?
Guruji: They are in your mind. But not always that impulse to develop. It’s a very complicated thing.
Q: Spirit inside us…
Guruji: And Ishwar is also inside you. I’m starting a new discussion.
Q: But spirit has a direct connection to the source?
Guruji: They are here and there all the time, yes.
Q: And Ishwar is a part of the source?
Guruji: Ishwar is a source itself.
Q: But spirit is from another dimension?
Guruji: Nobody knows exactly: no religion writes about it.
Q: But prana came from another dimension?
Guruji: like Shiva, yes: nobody knows from where. That’s why he is called Svayambhu, self-created. Matsyendranath said the best: from where prana comes? Avagati brings prana: knowing brings prana. It’s a very complicated answer.
PLANETARY INFLUENCE AND PRACTICE
As long as you are less than 120 years old – all the planets movement will affect you. And instead of trying to remain safe or escape from them, go to different astrologers; we must learn to face the situation and also we must try to develop our own intelligence – that’s how to tackle the situation which is there and what you can learn out of it. Every situation is there to teach you something, the learning continues; so concentrate on that.
Q: How does it change with the years of practice?
Guruji: The negative effect will not be so much. Some irritation will come; but without practice – bigger things will happen.
Q: Yes, I remember the previous transit of Rahu through Vrishabh – it was a very hard time. Now it’s also not so sweet – but not so hard as it was then
Guruji: See: even the same situation – but not to that level. But then your mahadasha must be different then, you will have to consider them also. I will say – my good time began when I received grace from my Guru. That is the major difference.
Q: The immortal bodies: they don’t need to eat, sleep?
Guruji: Maybe; it’s up to them, it is their decision.
Q: The electrical body – when it will come to the yogi?
Guruji: It will come after the final realisation.
Q: Before you merge with the consciousness of the Earth – you maybe have a semi-immortal body?
Guruji: No, maybe a little bit longer living body.
Q: So for immortality – only vajra kaya, the electrical body required?
Guruji: That is to think – when you don’t need your spirit. Before that there are also so many different stages. You’re working out: you may not become Mr. Olympia, but your body will develop. Same thing.
Q: What about Vasishtha and Vishwamitra rishis: they have the same situation – connected with the source?
Guruji: Well, about Vasishtha we can say that. Not about Vishwamitra.
Q: And about those 7 rishis, who are ruling now?
Guruji: Not much is known about their tapas; some references are in Mahabharat, in other books also. Vasishtha is more senior and his name appears in Hatha Yoga Pradipika also. He is very well respected; with him we can believe everything.
Q: Ashwatthama probably also?
Guruji: Yes, for sure: he is an incarnation of Shiva. That’s the point: people, those who are after self-realization- they keep discussing about spirit: but Ishwar is living inside the heart, they keep ignoring it. Paramatma is in the heart; and it’s up to us – if some good direction, some grace from some very learned person and grace from some siddha comes – you will find the way to enter your heart and see him.
Q: Ishwar is in the heart and spirit is everywhere?
Guruji: Yes, like ghee in milk: this is what Matsyendranath says in Gorakhbodh.
Q: They don’t connect with each other?
Guruji: they may be connected. Spirit may be just serving Ishwar – who knows? In ten years we have started discussing Ishwar, who is here. The real evolution( smiling)
FAITH IN GURU GIVES STRENGTH TO LIVE
Q: Some time back we discussed the offering to Bhairav: how is it better to do it?
Guruji: Anywhere. And you will notice, when you will start doing it – most of the drunkards will simply go away. We have already offered at least nearly a tonne of litres to Bhairav here in the last 25 years. Every day – it’s part of his ritual.
Q: Is it better to do it during the day or night time?
Guruji: Night time is good. Everybody knows: the daytime and morning is too early for that( laughing)
…in the right side of your chart; from the 8th it is looking directly to the 2nd house, which is eyes. Sun’s effect is always on the eyes. My eyesight has improved a little now: I don’t need glasses anymore to see distant things. Sometimes I read without glasses: when I remember – I read without glasses, I need glasses.
Q: I agree: the whole system regenerating very fast
Guruji: It will become even faster. I think Babaji has given something very miraculous. Most of the people, who are too much into religious imagination, so-called romantic spiritual imagination – they will miss everything, whatever is happening here. In the last 37 years now we have reached the 2000 mark: very few, not so many. And very few out of those 2000 are trying to understand what I’m trying to say: either they are too much into religious imagination or the books they read about Kundalini and other things, imagining chakras… but I’ve learned to keep quiet now.
Q: In last years I taught myself to believe in You: because only this can give you strength to go
Guruji: That is true, because the path is not so easy and achievement is extraordinary. Mere bhakti Guru ke shakti! I’m surviving on that.
And I see the irony here: 20 years back people were not taking me very seriously, even though I’ve written 5 heavyweight books like Gita, because I was young. Now they are listening to me seriously because I’m still looking young( laughing) when a new person comes – he is not registering about me; but in front of him some old contemporary comes – it’s a shock for me as for them as well.
Q: I think that even small things we cannot do without Your support
Guruji: So I’m like Jonathan Seagull, who is teaching you how to fly. And any open-minded person will like it.
EXHILARATION WITH A STRENGTH
Q: How much you must press – in percentage of your weight?
Guruji: Well, I was doing 110- even though I’ve done 240 maximum; but my body weight was then 95-6 kilos: it was more than bodyweight, which is considered good enough. 110 when I was doing – my bodyweight was only 80 kilos. In that proportion I’m stronger now – even less weight lifted. But that high feeling, which comes with strength is very different – exhilaration. Now I’m careful: we cannot cause injuries and with lifting too heavy it may happen. He was there: I did 36 repetitions with 110 kilos straight. Then the bench was broken; I said: Babaji is saying no more showing off – so we stopped. But moving mudgar is more impressive.
Q: Maybe stupid question, but for how long You could fix padmasan for the first time?
Guruji: 21 hours. We reach 21 hours in less than a month’s time. But I was already practicing Kriya for a few years before.
ABOUT BAD WORDS
…he was some military general and he came to interview me for Kriya yoga; and he discussed so much on Yoga Sutras – it was in 2001 or 2. So many problems were here: so somebody will come and I will use some bad words in hindi – they will go away, some staff. He recorded everything. Then he came back, satisfied. He phoned me after 2 weeks: what were those special yogic terms You were using in between? I said: what yogic terms? He replayed it – and those were the worst bad words(laughing); I said: please, delete them, they are not yogic terms. Only saints may survive without using daily quotes of bad words: tension will continue to build up.
Q: It is very common esoteric belief, that by using bad words you’re creating the bad vibrations, which is affecting your karma and even your body; so you will be sick or something like that?
Guruji: (smiling) that is a wrong belief.