Q: Shaktipat in terms of alchemical qualities: if a Guru is a philosopher’s stone, touching a disciple, he can make out of this material something which is also transformative and incredible in nature. But it’s too fairytale-ish; the material has to be processed first.
G: The material has to be processed first and simple touch is not enough. Touching has a different meaning here: if the disciple is able to touch the guru’s mind in his seeking, then the transformation may take place. I have seen many people who were initiated into it, there are many groups who “give” the Shaktipat, but have not seen substantial progress or expansion of the consciousness.
Q: Could the knowledge be transferred through such a thing as Shaktipat; do you know of any significant cases that you’ve seen for yourself?
G: Not a single one where the wisdom was transferred. Yes, when guru has said something very wise, and the disciple is practicing to his utmost capacity, after a certain time a student will start to understand the meaning of Guru’s words – so this is as good as Shakti path to me.
Q: Sometimes it is believed that Shaktipat could be granted via a gifted flower, through a sip of water – but it is sounding like the fairytales. Do such forms of Shaktipat exist, in your opinion?
G: I’ve not seen such cases so far. But I think it has a substantial background to it. When you are facing a great being, his very presence may inspire you, move beyond the limits. It is as good as Shaktipat… maybe this is the true Shaktipat instead of just smelling a flower or sipping water. When you see a higher being, whose very presence inspires and leads you on.
Q: Is such inspiration the catalyst of the change?
G: The greatest of the great inspirations is the real Shaktipat. This is what I think.
Q: Do you think that you got the Shaktipat from Babaji?
G: I think so, because simply looking at him was tremendously inspiring. After this meeting the level of self-confidence rose – and it affected my practice. All of it – just from being in his presence. The inspiration comes, and as a result of that ‘Yes, I can also do that’ and you start to do something to achieve the highest of the high goals, this inspiration is the real Shakti path. We, humans, are all miracle seekers, we are all trying to find the easy way to enlightenment, but there is an easy way to success.
Q: Is there such a thing as a miraculous change over night; you’ve been a common guy and the next thing you know some sage or sadhu put his finger between your eyebrows and you suddenly became a realized man..
G: I have never witnessed a sudden change. And I have seen many sadhus with powers and abilities.
Also after Hanuman began to talk to me, he did so through the mediums at first. Such people are called Shakti-Dharis/ The name means “possessed by a spirit”. Spirits are usually called Shakti at the Indian grassroots level. So when before death a person is giving the spirit which possesses them or they collaborated with to another man, and a new “carrier” becomes possessed after that – this is also a way of Shaktipat. But I see no great wisdom coming from that. Only some spirit who is working through their body. The medium becomes a vehicle, a vessel.
Q: A popular notion is that when a higher being touches you between the eyebrows, it opens your third eye.
G: It may not directly open your third eye. This is another thing that only Westerners discuss. In India, only Shiva and Shakti have a third eye, no one else. And when Shiva opens it (and He’s only opened it once or twice), the world of sense was incinerated. He opens a third eye only for the destruction. So this notion of touching the third eye and awakening someone’s mind, I don’t like it. But if we take it too scientifically, the touch of a high being – a god, or an immortal – passes some DNA to the recipient. That is for sure. And such DNA, by mixing with your DNA, will create new effects: different kinds of inspiration, or new wisdom. Something will definitely develop.
Q: Do you think that is what the touch of Shiva-ji’s sweat did to you?
G: My life is absolutely different, if I look back, before that event and after it – it is too overwhelming. I never had such fantastic ideas before this incident; now some of the new revelations and ideas are fantastic… they just come! I don’t even have to think when the information flows – I am saying those things as if they were outlined, dictated, passed directly to me. And. I think that it happens because of His grace.
Q: So it’s not a Shaktipat, it’s a Shivapat….
G: It is, yes. The touch of Shiva. As much as I had been researching all the legends and myths, I never came across any description that Shiva was sweating. That is another peculiarity that His sweat touched me – perhaps, with that touch Mahadev’s DNA passed on. Truly fantastic ideas started to come to me after that. For some time I became very quiet, then the new ideas became so overwhelming: somebody would ask something and I would experience a mental blast. And it would bring a storm of ideas and cognition. Perhaps, it also triggered this physical transformation.
IMMORTALS AND EMOTIONS
Q: Yesterday we spoke about the Philosopher’s stone, and you gave a unique description that Guru is a philosopher’s stone. The uniqueness is that if he touches the disciple, with whatever properties, he may also become a philosopher’s stone.
G: In India Philosopher’s stone is called Paras pathar; supposedly the equivalent of the Western Philosopher’s stone, it is, however, believed to be occasionally found in its natural state. Some historic records spoke of accidental encounters with such elements. At the end of 18th century, when the army of maharaja of Scindia was crossing river Morar near Gwalior, the iron chains on the cannon turned into gold ones. Something in that river’s bedrock, or in the sweat of the horses, or a combination of many unknowns, triggered the transformation of the metal naturally – and changed its properties within 40 minutes it took the army to reach another bank… This case was famous, and the chain itself was displayed for a long time – until the gold disappeared in the whirlpool of history, which took the form of the pockets of the heirs…
In Alchemy, in Ayurveda they also give some formulas that you can create Paraspathar or Philosopher’s stone with mercury after you have gone through the 18 processes of it and it is absolutely perfect then it also has this property.
Q: You said something known by every Indian but that might not be known to Westerners: it is well known in India, that eternal life is needed only for Tapasya.
G: There is no other motive to live that long or to create this alchemical work for. How much luxury can you have? If you have one million tons of gold at your disposal, what are you going to do with it? Until – unless you share it with everybody, how much can you enjoy it? There is a limit to it.
Q: Are people so well educated to know it? …
G: They are aware. This is so woven into the grassroots level folklore that almost everybody knows about it. Almost every villager knows about it. They have heard it from somewhere, from sadhus talking, from a father or grandfather – so most of them are aware.
Q: And yet, watching western movies we see the promoted idea to go into eternity, the desire to have a continuous life of consciousness. This concept is very much alive. Why do you think it is?
G: It has actually been discussed, here in India: after you have realized yourself, after you have seen the creator face to face, there is one more thing to cognise. Until – unless you know the creator’s signature, let’s say, the nature of Ishwar, thoroughly, you will never be on intimate terms with Him or Her. Eternal life is needed so that you can actually study the creation of Ishwar. Only by knowing the creation may you have some idea of His true nature. That’s why Rishis live so long: only for this purpose.
Q: So initially one has to dedicate himself to this eternal schooling, say “I have enough curiosity to travel”
G: That’s the point. Until – unless you have the wonderment of a child, you will never have this desire.
Q: Can you clarify forms of immortality? Are there many forms of eternal life?
G: Usually there are only 2 forms. One has an extraordinarily long life, but still such a person can die if someone kills him. Real, true immortality is when one simply cannot die. Non-perishable, such a person can keep on living forever. Only these two types of immortality exist.
Another type of eternal life is an application of the spiritual “marker” on your soul. When you are somehow able to stamp your spirit with your own identity. That is as good as immortality. One can keep changing the body but the identity will remain the same, and such souls will continue to learn and observe the creator’s creation. And to, cognise His true nature.
Q: The general concept is that the soul is immortal – don’t we consider this to be immortality per se?
G: Souls may be immortal, but what about us? It is their job to give us life for a certain period and take it away.
Q: So, it’s a purely conceptual notion, we don’t consider it to be an everlasting life?
G: Until – unless you are somehow able to stamp your spirit with your true identity, then the story will become different.
Q: What about the legends about bodies, kept by yoginis in a state of hibernation, the bodies which they can use, to come back to it and revive them?
G: It is possible only when such a body has very extraordinary special properties. Only when it had been prepared for this.
Q: Is it possible to create such an incubator while you are somewhere else on business… a separate meat suit waiting for you.? Do you think this really happens?
G: I believe it, yes. I am sure that it is happening, yes.
Q: Where did such legends come from?
G: I think this whole construct of human society and the changes of different civilizations and kingdoms is just a play. A game of immortals. They have an eternity to pass and so they are playing these games. Which also gives them a chance to observe the Creator and His creation. They may also learn out of it their own abilities to manipulate some of this creation… just to see how the Creator will react. That is another way of knowing His nature. To provoke Him from time to time.
Q: What do you think of the level of emotions amongst the immortals…
G: I would say that because they have gone through almost every emotion that exists, they are full of compassion and highly emotional beings.
Q: And yet their hearts will not move when they are looking at the wars and all the deaths – because they’ve already seen everything?
G: But every war will bring different kinds of emotions, because the time is different, situation is different and those who are fighting the next wars are experiencing different emotions.
Q: But these feelings might be the same, war after war: The fear, the anxiety, grief…?
G: In general terms they are the same, but then there are millions of shades in fear and anxiety.
… I think the immortals are highly emotional beings.
Q: You don’t think that they experience a certain boredom seeing the same cycles over and over again?
G: No, I think that they still have the amazement of a child and the wonderment. That is what keeps them going. We imagine that they are all ancient, old beings who have gone beyond everything, but they must remain childlike – and that may be the key for living an eternal life.
Q: Does it preserve the freshness of the spirit, otherwise they will die from inside?
G: Otherwise, it will be a curse to live for that long.
Q: So, freshness of emotion might be the crucial ingredient to keep going on living.
G: Yes, I think this is extremely important if you are hoping for a long life and planning to achieve it. Even Jesus Christ said ‘Until unless you become like a little child, you cannot enter the gate of heaven.’ So maybe this gate of heaven may be an eternal life. So, until unless you have a childlike mind, full of wonderment, what is the use of living a thousand years?
Q: That only comes from within though, it cannot be cultivated.
G: That may be the sum, the culmination of all tapasya and yoga practice. When we say ‘wise old man’ we always imagine a wrinkled old man with a beard, so wise and experienced that he’s already beyond every emotion, even compassion. But nowadays when I think of it, I think that immortals have childlike minds and a certain kind of playfulness in them. Even though they lived countless years. Usually truly wise people preserve a great sense of humour, regardless of anything. And it’s not dry or witty.
Q: When the Brahmanical mercury is processed…
G: Brahmanical mercury doesn’t need to be processed. If you are fortunate enough to find it – you just take it and you become immortal
Q: So, it’s not an alchemical product…
G: It is Nature’s product. Nowadays only Shudra Mercury is found and that’s why it needs to be processed with the 18 steps to make it Brahmanical.
If you find Brahman quality of mercury in its natural state, it is ready to use and it is ready to grant immortality.
Q: But is it still possible to get it through the process, converting it from Shudra to Brahmin?
G: Yes, that is the reason for the process.
Q: And is this material very simple in its essence? Or is it extremely complicated in its properties?
G: When you have processed it, then it is very simple. Otherwise, it is very complicated.
Q: So, an immortal being, in fact, possesses the same essence as mercury…
G: They are simple. They become pure, simple and childlike, along with all the wisdom and might after they have journeyed through the most sophisticated and difficult changes.