Q: it is said in Yoga Darshan that no blinking for 24 minutes will lead to samadhi; but I think it must be also no heart beat and no breathe?

Guruji: it is the result of that. Everything will come after that. Kurma vayu will become very quiet then all these things will come. in khechari you had to remain unblinking – that is an effort for kurma vayu. Kurma avatar provided steadiness to the churning of the ocean. Most of these stories sounds symbolic to me.

Q: so in our practice how this unblinking state can be achieved?

Guruji: only with practice. Everything comes together. That’s why first level with khechari is extremely important.

Q: shloka about udana vayu: by controlling udana you can move above the water, above the dirt and above the thorns?

Guruji: your body will become extremely light – it’s about physical body.

Q: why exactly udana gives this power?

Guruji: that’s the specialty of udana vayu.

Q: when you achieve samadhi – you start to do samyama on different parts?

Guruji: it is the different use of these things so you’re becoming aware of them.

Q: it is like learning, education?

Guruji: understanding. What you learn is knowledge; what you understand is wisdom.

Q: so only when your mind is awaken by samadhi – you start to perceive?

Guruji: that’s why I keep saying: it is the beginning of a new chapter.

Q: after samadhi we start to perceive and to train the new things?

Guruji: not exactly, you were not ready – your mind is going there, you focus and you begin to understand.

Q: but who will point you where you should concentrate?

Guruji: whatever your mind be interested in. no need of teacher or something; but you may need to discuss that things.

Q: Guru decides – today you need this?

Guruji: no. any point of concentration can give you a lot of new information – that’s why our discussions go so deep: you started something and it goes on and on.

When the goal of life is very clear for you – then your whole life will be concentrated to achieve that. Only then you will experience the real concentration. Other types of concentration are temporary things. So motive and purpose of life are very important. Then all your efforts will be concentrated to achieve that.

Q: so concentration is permanent?

Guruji: the purpose or goal of life when you discover it – then the concentration will be permanent. It’s a very great achievement for anybody – to find the purpose of life. You will notice: we talk from different perspective here.


Q: as I understand when you slow down your breathe, you will begin to breathe slower and slower and finally your heart will also beat slower and slower and then stop – it’s simple explanation of the things?

Guruji: no, that is very complicated thing. Khechari is just stepping stone – but very important stepping stone.

You will begin to be aware of your brain working: brain is the seat of the mind. You will become aware of your brain and dormant things – your subconscious mind; so many things you will become aware: that will be the overwhelming experience in the beginning. Then when you have settle down by recognizing the value of the brain – then your attention will go that who is supporting the brain: then your attention will go to the heart. Then you will begin to understand the mysteries of the heart and how it is working, how the life force is working; and the religions says – the god lives in the heart. Also you will realize that the heart is the seal chamber of pure darkness: that means life hides in darkness. Even in bible god said: let it be light! – that means he was in the darkness. Every life is starting from the dark. When you will understood the all mysteries of the heart you will have enough control to slow it down or even stop it. Then you will begin to wonder that how heart was created; then your attention will go to your navel. From your navel the whole body was created. Then after you have understood the mysteries of that – then your attention will go to the earth element: that this is the mother element of all; then your attention will go to the muladhar chakra, which represents earth element. That is the simple journey of Kriya yoga.

Q: it’s in different language how we pierce our granthi?

Guruji: actually when we are saying “bhed” – we can translate it as piercing also, but “bhed” also means a great mystery. That thing is not to exactly pierce – but to unveil the mystery and understand it; without knowing the mystery what you can do? This is about understanding the secret or the mystery. In every religion heart is considered as very important, because god lives inside it. And it the epicenter of prana – god must be there.

Q: interesting that yogis go much deeper than any religion?

Guruji: it looks like it: because all religions say – god lives in the heart, but nobody is trying to find the god in the heart – they are looking towards the heaven or some place to find god. Only yogis know the way how to reach inside your heart and see him face to face. It is very simple in yoni mudra.

Q: even after reaching the heart you have two more options: navel and muladhar…

Guruji: this is yoga: it goes beyond religions – even though it comes from hindus. And I keep saying: what remains after you have seen god and know him? to understand his nature remains. To understand his nature you will need to study the creation he created – only then you will know his true nature. That remains! That is something to pass infinity.

Q: so heart doesn’t stop naturally?

Guruji: only by understanding how it is working you may have some control of it. Forcibly nothing is done. Like this: please lift your right hand: see – it’s friendly way. I’m not saying: you’re my disciple, I’m your Guru and I’m ordering you to lift your hand! – you will have the subconscious stand against it. In a friendly way you just lift it – and that is done. This thing will be apply on your breath – how your breath is working and how your life force or prana is working: in a friendly way.

Tongue is also the muscle – one of the strongest and it can be trained also. So much things are going on for strength result. One of my doctor-disciple asked me: how is your heart? Is it good? I said – it is full of so many desires and imaginations, broken many times and still beating – so it must be good, still working.


…he practiced something, yes.

Q: he achieved samadhi?

Guruji: this I don’t know – maybe. Banamali Lahiri was my real friend, I was visiting him when I visit the original house of Lahiri Mahasaya. Then the man in his early 40ies came – very good looking and very shapely physically but very serious. When he was leaving he told me: that was Yogananda in his next life; now he is living alone and just practicing, not talking with people. Sometimes he visits Lahiri Mahasaya. I’ve seen him 2 times but have not talk with him.

Q: what is the purpose for him to take another birth?

Guruji: how can I tell you the purpose? Babaji decides.

Q: You think he did his mission well – previous mission?

Guruji: he made Kriya yoga, Babaji, all the lineage of the Gurus very famous, the world over. Most of the people are getting recognized because the work of him. either somebody starts their “ supermission” by criticizing yoga or by praising yoga: you cannot ignore his work. Even my search was started in 1979 by reading “Autobiography of the yogi” – I think it’s fantastic book. Yogananda was the greatest yogi – maybe one and only – who ever visiting west. No comparison with him.

Q: You think it’s Babaji’s grace?

Guruji: without his blessing I don’t think a person can become legend or world famous. Because human beings are human beings – instead of getting inspire by his spiritual richness people are inspired by his material success, which he attained.

Q: it’s like the side effect – or he wanted this, what do You think?

Guruji: it’s just a side effect. When you’re genuinely a yogi – you will be recognized by people and you cannot remain poor until unless you choose to remain poor – yoga is the magical thing. You will become known.

Q: but all the great yogis were remain poor?

Guruji: they choose it – because it’s a part of a discipline.

Q: to maintain the ego?

Guruji: maybe they will remain in tact with grassroots level people. They always stay in touch with grassroots level people.

Q: why it’s so important for the yogi – to keep in touch with them?

Guruji: when they realize so many things, very deep mysteries of life; they also begin to respect life. Life is everywhere. Simply by roaming around living people, beings, different creatures – lot of wisdom; it is just like a language from the creator. We are like syllables of the language of the Creator. In every life form there is something, something special. You cannot ignore this fact.

Q: so immortal yogis are observing people?

Guruji: I will say in a different way: when you have say hello to the Creator – what remains? To understand his true nature remains. You can understand a person’s nature simply by observing his creation and his work – so they keep on observing and studying the Creator’s work, so they can understand his creation better. It takes time!

Q: thousands of years or millions of years?

Guruji: eternity. They actually can recognize what is humanity or what is life – humanity is a part of it.


Q: about formless thought: first image is somehow limit it and then words limit it even more?

Guruji: but it becomes much more clear

Q: but it lose that possibilities which it have when it was formless?

Guruji: there is another point: take example of the sea. If you want to test the water – you will take a small portion of the sea to test it in laboratory – you cannot take the whole ocean in laboratory. Out of the great vast ocean of the consciousness you take some form, make it more crystalline by expressing it – then you understand so many things out of it.

I’m already living in the cremation area, doesn’t differentiate between people – even though I’m a brahmin by birth – for me everybody is same. Sincere approach required.

Q: could it be that person was born in low caste – but looking and showing like a brahmin?

Guruji: no, the genetics will play their own. In my disciples there are every type of persons. Thanks to my father: he was a district judge, it’s big status. But instead of sending me to private school or something, where I become a snob, he sent me to the government school. There were sweepers, our servants sons – every person was there and I was there – so the very different type of communication begin. It took me some time to understand that my social status and their social status differs. I’m no problem in communicating – even with the kings or the lowly of the lowest.

I will tell you one incident: I was in third standard then. There was one boy and his father was constable, who brings important reports of court to the house of the judge. There is my nature: I’m calling everybody by name; it was very difficult for me to say “uncle” or “aunty” or something, I don’t know why. He was a very good friend of mine and they have a quarter in a central jail campus which was facing our «bungalow». One day in the afternoon I went to his house. We were playing and then constable came, his father. And I was not knowing that this constable is my friend’s father. So I just call him by name – how you are here? Then my friend said: he is my father. He became very nervous suddenly – that the son of the judge is in my house, what to do, how to behave… I couldn’t understand that, I was too young. Then I went home. Next day when I went to school my friend was maintain the distance with me, not talking. I ask him: why are you not talking? He said: my father said not to talk with you. Why? He said – playing with big people son will spoil you. Then I came home I discuss it with my father: then he explained the social status and all these things – till then I was not aware. And in 1 or 2 days we became friends again. So – thanks to my father, my head is leveled, no snob is developed.

Also it was a musalman from sagar district; thanks to my mother and father – I had a habit to bring the friends to my house; my mother will gave them the same treatment. She was not discriminated – he’s a butcher’s son or he’s sweeper’s son, no. my nature was bring every friend to house. She treated them well and nobody told me – why, whom you’re bringing? I think it was very good training from them to me. I’m sure he must be remembering me – that butcher’s son, he must be old now.

My elder brother married princess of Jamnagar – so we were communicating with the royal family, kings – same way as with sweeper’s and butcher’s sons, same way with the royal family also. My mind is still leveled.


I don’t know whether it’s authentic story – but it’s amazing story; he borrowed Yukteshwar’s Giri ashram from some americans. He purchase this washington’s mountain property – he also saw the photos of some hotels or other buildings there. and he was unable to pay back; it happened in such a way that after 2 or 3 hours the time will be over and property will be confiscated by the loan sharks with the help of the police.

So James j.Linn – he was a sort of millionaire, gas magnate or something; Yogananda has done some great help to him in some way. He was visiting Yogananda – and when he came that loan shark was sitting here with some policeman, waiting for last 2 hours to take the property back. Yogananda was very relaxed, in a very happy mood and he was singing. James Linn was very surprised: how he’s singing, he lost his mind or what? He said – police is waiting to take this property; Yogananda answered – yes, I know that. – and still you are happy and singing? Yoganand said: if god wants me to be kicked out of here – it’s god’s will, so what I can do? Let’s enjoy it!  – how you will find money? – absolutely no idea – god will arrange it; maybe you will arrange it? He went out, wrote the check of the account, give it to the loan shark and it was the end of the story. And he was so impressed that he became a monk and a second president of that society.

Lahiri Mahasaya often went barefoot; one day he came into his room  – and the family members saw some blood and ask him, what happened?  – what happened?  – that blood, what is it? – oh, I’ve cut my feet and put a med band on it. Then they saw that he banded one foot and the cut was on the other foot. That is very cute – and also tells us he was a spiritual giant.

Q: you cannot avoid such karma?

Guruji: you have to live 120 years. He was only 64 or 65 then.

Q: if you somehow avoid such accident?

Guruji: it will come: if you take a loan – you have to pay it back; no matter how long you’ll avoid pay back – they will find you.

Q: and it will increase more?

Guruji: compound effect – so better to face it. What experiences Lahiri Mahasaya had and recorded in his diaries – matchless. No one has such experiences. This is specialty of Kriya yoga: you must read and compare. Nowhere such deep spiritual experiences have been recorded. It was my great fortune that my Guru allowed me to browse through his personal diaries. That was the very great honor for me. When you open those pages, see his handwriting… you feel nostalgy: he wrote those pages so long time before and you’re reading it now. That makes Lahiri Mahasaya extraordinary, the first disciple of Babaji, who was sent to society. Very simple man – and extraordinary discipline.


If you can move mudgars few thousands of repetitions – you can move the sword the whole day, without being tired. It’s a warriors training – but very good for the physical condition and giving the v-shape to the body and gives great balance for the legs also – because legs are holding your balance; it’s an overall training.

Q: better try to achieve bigger weight or more repetitions?

Guruji: because we’re not wrestlers you don’t need to go too heavy: it will be very dangerous for the shoulder and elbow joint. Comfortable moderate weight: I think 10-12 kilos for one mudgar is enough. You should start with lighter weight – 6-7 kilos and slowly increase.

Q: does mudgars support pranayama?

Guruji: they are open up your chest and will increase your lung capacity: your kumbhak will increase. When you’re moving them with both hands – both brain hemispheres will become active at the same time, which is considered as a great thing. Very good concentration, high imagination, sense of humor, great lung capacity, enough shoulder and arm strength, overall strength of the body – all these thigs will come.

I’ve seen people practicing with mudgars since I was a child – and every single one of them had great sense of humor and their voices were deep; and they were not lacking anything – whatever they needed were come to them. And looking good as well. It is some mysterious force involved. Most of them died in their 80s. and those were the people who was not careful for their diet, some was even meat-eaters.

Q: and only one basic movement is enough?

Guruji: in my opinion it’s the best – but some people also doing it in reversed way; also you can take them in straight arms, widely open to the sides and slowly rotate them inside to touch each other – it’s very good for the wrists strength. Also you can hold them arms together facing down and rotate them outside, making one straight line – it’s also the great strength. And it’s a weapon also, ancient time weapon. And also you can workout your triceps and do hammers for biceps.

Only swinging mudgars you can become the real swinger.


Q: is it true that sade-sati returns karmas of the previous 30 years?

Guruji: no-no; in fact sade-sati establishing you in your career and in society and in your own, whatever thing you’re trying to. It’s a very good time.

Q: from where it started that everyone became to be afraid of it?

Guruji: from most of the professional astrologers: they will frighten you – and then of you pay this much we will try to do something. Sade-sati is giving a good opportunity to many astrologers to make good money, pandits also.

But in my opinion Saturn, Shani Maharaj is a great teacher. He teaches you the hard way, but he teaches well.

Q: what do You think about of the story of King Vikramaditya?

Guruji: well, it was the great lesson: when you’re always like a king – you separate from the grassroots level and you think that everything is only for your own benefit and service. If king is s separated – he cannot look for his public and people. That’s why democracy came.

Q: but we discussed that Rahu also is a great teacher?

Guruji: Rahu is the very mysterious thing: his head Shiva Ji put in his own skull garland – he is the only living head there. he is very close to Shiva Ji, he also represents Kundalini. All mystical arts Rahu represents; so Rahu’s influence is very much needed for spiritual progress. So of Ketu as well.

Q: what is the difference in influence of Rahu and Ketu?

Guruji: Ketu is the very peaceful planet because it is headless. It is body without head, but still alive. Wherever it will be – it will give the very great strength to that place or to the planet. Rahu is the head, ruling superconsciousness and all these things. Both of their influence is needed.

Q: why so much people is suffering from Rahu?

Guruji: he is trying to give you the spiritual knowledge and you’re running from it – some clashes will definitely come.

Q: Rahu creates the situation?

Guruji: he’s not creating, he’s just showing the certain period of your karma results. They are not enemies, not friends: they just showing you what you have done in your past.

Q: but the ways of showing Rahu and Saturn are very different?

Guruji: yes. But in ancient texts it is said that Rahu acts like Saturn and Ketu acts like Mars.

Q: what do You think about stories from Robert Svoboda’s book about Saturn?

Guruji: most of them are fabricated. We’re very good at creating stories. When you will always take a truth and continuously speak the truth – everything will be extremely boring; so some added flavor is needed( smiling). If somebody will ask you, where you going; as truthful you will say: I’m going to toilet. But if you will ask my suggestion, I’ll say: put some romance in it! What should you say? I’m going there even presidents and kings go on foot. You’re telling the truth – but romance is here. This is brilliant thing!

Q: I’m going where the fruits of my karma leaves me

Guruji: finally. No, you should say: I was just providing raw material to the factory which is in my stomach and now leave as a finished product.

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